Always on the Right Side of the Issues

October 28, 2008

More on Gay Marriage

Filed under: Uncategorized — Tags: , , , , — choosetheright @ 6:55 pm

This article was recently published in the Deseret News.  I have cut out some parts, because it is pretty long, but there was so much said so well I just had to leave it.  I added some emphasis for those of you who just want the meat.

Disagree but don’t be unkind
By Orson Scott Card
Published: Thursday, Oct. 23, 2008

Some people have misunderstood the LDS Church’s position on Proposition 8 in California, and its opposition to gay marriage. They think that we are “against homosexuals” — that we think of “them” as our enemies, and that individuals who have entered into “gay marriages” pose a direct personal threat to us.
So let’s set the record straight.

… So our concern in this legal struggle is not for the church, but for the health and well-being of society at large, of which we are only a part.

2. We do not believe that homosexuals, by entering into a “marriage,” are personally hurting anybody. Where the law makes such a thing available, even temporarily, those who “marry” are not our enemies. We believe the law is wrong and the marriage is not, in any meaningful way, what we mean by marriage.

…My family and I have close friends who are gay, some of whom have entered into lawful marriages. They know we don’t agree that their relationship is the same thing or should have the same legal status as our marriage, but we all accept that strong and clear difference of opinion and move on, continuing to respect and love each other for the values we share.

Only when a gay friend demanded that I agree with his or her point of view or cease to be friends has the friendship ended. What is odd is that in every case they called me intolerant. They misunderstood the meaning of “tolerance.”

Tolerance implies disagreement — it means that even though we don’t agree with or approve of each others beliefs or actions, we can still live together amicably. When we agree, we aren’t being tolerant, we’re being uniform.

It’s uniformity or submission these former friends wanted, not tolerance at all.

4. Only those who try to use the force of law to promote homosexual behavior and homosexual marriage to our children, and who would forbid us to publicly teach and express our belief that marriage is only meaningful between heterosexual couples, move into the category of enemies of freedom. And that will be because of their attempt to suppress religious freedom, freedom of speech and press, and the right of parents to control their children’s moral education.
We do not think that any belief system, whether it calls itself a religion or not, should be imposed on other people by law — we won’t impose ours on them, and we won’t let them impose theirs on us or our families.

There is no place for any Latter-day Saint to be unkind to, or speak slightingly of, those who disagree with us. Just because someone else is engaging in conduct that we believe is wrong does not give us the right to hate them or mistreat them. We preach the gospel of Christ to any who are willing to listen, but we will force our beliefs on no one.

We would never try to force our beliefs on an unwilling majority, and we hope that our opponents on this issue will have the same respect for democracy and the Constitution.

In fact, I believe that even those who absolutely believe in gay marriage should join us in opposing any law that is forced on an unwilling majority by the dictates of judges. For those that are wise will recognize that once judges are given such power, that power has as much chance of being used against them as for them.

What are the reasons that we, as citizens, oppose gay marriage?

Legalizing gay marriage has huge legal implications far beyond letting same-sex couples enter into marriage contracts. Once “marriage” has been so radically redefined, it will become unlawful and discriminatory for schools or any other public facility to favor, for instance, heterosexual dating or dancing.

Since our culture (like all human cultures throughout all of history) is oriented toward promoting the maximum opportunity for reproductive success for all members of the community, but channeled in a way that will best promote the survival of the community, such a radical change should not be entered into lightly.

Yet serious examination of scientific, historical, and legal issues has been all but drowned out by name-calling and demands for “rights.”

Why do we oppose legalizing gay marriage?

…Growing up with opposite-sex parents, but in a society that has normalized and actively promotes one-sex marriages, will certainly affect the children of opposite-sex parents, potentially tipping the balance for children whose sexual identity is still formable.


No serious attempt has been made to consider anything more than a general feeling that “tolerance is good” and “discrimination is bad.” Yet we are proceeding headlong into a vast social experiment whose consequences, as far as we can see, risk serious damage to many in order to create only the most marginal benefit for a few.”

—————————————————————————-

This actually cleared up a few things for me, and said what I was trying to say on my last post on this topic.  I know this subject can get heated, and is highly controversial, please let this be a place to share your voice respectful of everyone’s differing opinions.

Advertisements

5 Comments »

  1. “…My family and I have close friends who are gay, some of whom have entered into lawful marriages. They know we don’t agree that their relationship is the same thing or should have the same legal status as our marriage, but we all accept that strong and clear difference of opinion and move on, continuing to respect and love each other for the values we share.
    Only when a gay friend demanded that I agree with his or her point of view or cease to be friends has the friendship ended. What is odd is that in every case they called me intolerant. They misunderstood the meaning of ‘tolerance.’
    Tolerance implies disagreement — it means that even though we don’t agree with or approve of each others beliefs or actions, we can still live together amicably. When we agree, we aren’t being tolerant, we’re being uniform. It’s uniformity or submission these former friends wanted, not tolerance at all.”

    The author of this piece is definitely entitled to his beliefs. He is entitled to disagree with gay marriage and not think his relationship with his wife is the same as a man’s relationship with his partner. No argument there. In fact, I would be quite the hypocrite if I thought he wasn’t entitled to believe that. But tell me what is tolerant about protesting and attempting to make illegal gay marriage? That is intolerance. You are not “living together amicably” when you are trying to take others’ rights away.

    In the case this man described, it is his gay friends who are clearly being intolerant, demanding he agrees with them or the friendship ends. That, I agree, is intolerant. That is ridiculous. But, don’t for a second believe that that is what all gay people want. I cannot speak for them, but I can bet all they want is to believe what they want to believe, without having any one else’s beliefs forced upon them.

    Next…

    “We do not think that any belief system, whether it calls itself a religion or not, should be imposed on other people by law – we won’t impose ours on them, and we won’t let them impose theirs on us or our families.”

    I beg to differ!!! He IS imposing his beliefs by not allowing them to practice theirs! Do want you want in your church, in your family, with your children, Mr. Card, but do not tell other people what to do with theirs.

    …And then….

    “…Growing up with opposite-sex parents, but in a society that has normalized and actively promotes one-sex marriages, will certainly affect the children of opposite-sex parents, potentially tipping the balance for children whose sexual identity is still formable.”

    A fundamental difference in my beliefs and those who oppose gay marriage is that I believe you do not choose to be gay. Therefore, growing up with a gay parent, a straight parent, a whatever parent…does nothing. You can’t just decide to “be” gay. It is my belief that you are born straight or gay. I am straight. Did I decide to be straight? No. It was a natural instinct. Any straight person who thinks you choose to be gay…please tell me when exactly it was that YOU chose to be straight.

    I am also leaning more towards the nature as opposed to the nurture side of this argument. Millions of children grow up to be gay adults…and have straight parents. And there are gay parents raising children who are 100% straight.

    Next…

    “4. Only those who try to use the force of law to promote homosexual behavior and homosexual marriage to our children, and who would forbid us to publicly teach and express our belief that marriage is only meaningful between heterosexual couples, move into the category of enemies of freedom. And that will be because of their attempt to suppress religious freedom, freedom of speech and press, and the right of parents to control their children’s moral education.”

    I dont think anyone is “promoting” homosexual behavior by allowing gay marriage. It’s allowing it, for those who see fit for them. Cigarettes are allowed. Does that mean the government promotes smoking? Legalizing gay marriage is not saying “hey everyone, be gay!” The government legalizes smoking tobacco. Does that mean they promote smoking? Alcohol is legal. So clearly the government is promoting alcoholism? The government is legalizing these things and letting the individual decide for themselves what is right.

    And finally…

    “Legalizing gay marriage has huge legal implications far beyond letting same-sex couples enter into marriage contracts. Once “marriage” has been so radically redefined, it will become unlawful and discriminatory for schools or any other public facility to favor, for instance, heterosexual dating or dancing. Since our culture (like all human cultures throughout all of history) is oriented toward promoting the maximum opportunity for reproductive success for all members of the community, but channeled in a way that will best promote the survival of the community, such a radical change should not be entered into lightly.”

    Why do public schools have to favor heterosexual dating or dancing? Why do they have to favor one or the other? Or either? What does that have to do with education? Reproduction will happen regardless of gay people, gay marriage, etc. Do you really think that by allowing gay marriage, we are promoting “being gay” and …what…eventually there will be no more straight people? That’s ridiculous!!!!!

    This is not a “social experiment” like the article’s author claims. Homosexuality is real and has been for a very, very long time in society. It is only now coming to the forefront as far as rights are concerned. Gay rights are the civil rights of the 21st century. In the 60s, whites didn’t think blacks should have equal rights. Doesn’t that seem so backward to you now? Back then a man like Barack Obama would not even THINK of being president, let alone having a real chance of doing it. And I hope decades from our grandkids can look back at this injustice in history and realize how narrow minded it was, the same way I do about my grandparents’ feelings on civil rights then.

    This is not an experiment of what life will be like if there are gays. There ARE gays. All they want is to be able to file joint income taxes, visit their partner in the hospital, reap the benefits of health insurance and maybe celebrate their love publicly, the same way we heterosexual couples get to.

    Comment by LG — October 28, 2008 @ 7:45 pm

  2. I agree whole-heartedly with LG. I thought this article was wonderfully written, but it seemed funny that its point was to vote yes on prop 8…almost every point the author made pointed toward allowing gay marriage. I don’t even think I need to make any further comment, because LG said it all.

    Comment by Ashlei — October 29, 2008 @ 5:22 am

  3. When Laura said

    “Back then a man like Barack Obama would not even THINK of being president”

    Made me think of one thing and one thing only.

    The time 1955
    The place Lou’s Cafe

    On Marty McFly’s suggestion Goldie Wilson decides he will become Mayor of Hill Valley.

    Comment by Bill — October 29, 2008 @ 7:06 pm

  4. Prop 8 has nothing to do with making gay marriage illegal. It upholds the will of the people who voted on Prop 22 to support the traditional definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman. Under California Family Code Law “…homosexual couples are to be given the same treatment and benefits as heterosexual couples.” Prop 8 does not change that in any way.

    What Prop 8 does do is concrete the fact that the will of the people will not be overturned by 4 judges. It ensures that our forefather’s plan for government will be continued; that the governed will have the power rather than the government. If we allow a handful of people to start deciding laws for us, what will be next?

    Comment by Lauren — November 1, 2008 @ 6:08 am

  5. We already do have a handful of people deciding laws for us. It’s called the Senate, the House and the Executive Branch. That’s just how the system is set up. What we need to worry about (which has taken the back seat) is the power grab this administration has taken to create what is effectively the most powerful Executive branch in history.

    Luckily terrorism has taken a back burner to the economy and Iraq which is preventing any further reach for power.

    Comment by Bill — November 3, 2008 @ 7:57 pm


RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Blog at WordPress.com.

%d bloggers like this: